Some judging questions for IMAC

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Some judging questions for IMAC

Postby Languid Virago on Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:51 am

I was just starting to learn the 2016 intermediate routine on the sim,

But I have a couple of questions,

1.in manoevers with a multiple change of pitch, does the radius of each pitch change need to be the same as the other pitch changes in that manoever?

2. is each manoever judged independently on the radius of pitch change or should they all be the same ( where possible) in a routine? I am used to F3M but will be having a play at IMAC next year, the judging on both is different and I don't want to learn wrong, I won't fly a UK comp probably, so the judges will be Europeans if that makes a difference?

3. what makes a perfect IMAC snap roll? I again I have a standard snap I do, but don't know how well it would be judged as I have never flown a snap in IMAC competition.

4. Crossbox, again never flown competition crossbox before, if the exit of a crossbox manoever is further out that a previous flight line, do you fly the next manoever further out or do you bring the plane back into the previously flown line?

5. Vertical lines with rolling manoevers, is it better to wind compensate or not? Say there is a snap roll which is hard to wind compensate well, will the wind drift be judged down? and if so how badly?

and any other useful info for someone coming over from F3M?

Cheers.
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Re: Some judging questions for IMAC

Postby Arun on Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:45 am

I'll e-mail you a login for the IMAC forum - this question is probably better over there ...
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Re: Some judging questions for IMAC

Postby Arun on Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:51 am

Also, have a look at "Resources" section on http://imacuk.org. This is open to public even without login and covers lots of info on judging, e.g. radius. Suggest starting with "Judging the Basic Known" and "The Snap" which you will see in the menu, but if you read everything it will be an hour well spent!
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Re: Some judging questions for IMAC

Postby thomasdavid on Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:10 am

New rad rules are like the Aresti, if its drawn round then the drawn round radii in that manoeuvre need to be equal. If its drawn square then they don't need to match. If they do need to match it is only within a manoeuvre. The judge forgets the last manoeuvre as soon as you have flown it.

There is an exception to the above for a double humpty. The top and bottom don't need to match even though they are drawn round.

If you have a cross box that takes you out then the rest of the sequence will be further out. Unless you are very good then you can accidentally drift back in over the next few manoeuvres and the judges might not notice. Chances are you will have already drifted out of position so will be glad of the cross box to correct. The line before a manoeuvre is judged as part of the manoeuvre, so any banking or change of flight path on that line will loose you points.

Snaps - if there is a break, auto-rotation and you stop in the right place then you get a 10. If no break or auto-rotation then zero. Stopping in the wrong place is a half mark per 5 degrees. If the auto-rotation stops early and you roll to finish then it counts as stopping in the wrong place. They won't notice the last one in Europe but we do here. No downgrade for how a snap looks.

All lines and radii need to be wind corrected. Snaps, spins and stall turns are stalled manoeuvres (well, not all technically), so wind drift will happen in those elements and is not downgraded.
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Re: Some judging questions for IMAC

Postby thomasdavid on Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:49 am

Also, I don't think the sim will be much use. A stick plane is much better.
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Re: Some judging questions for IMAC

Postby Languid Virago on Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:16 pm

Cheers Tom, nice concise answer that was very informative. Nice that snaps are still classed as stalled, I can wind correct some ways and not others.

Frankly, I think my snaps are poo, main place I have serious work to do. Mega prone to over rotation due to going in too deep and/or too fast. More lookalike snaps than an actual stalled inside wing. maybe if I ever get my bigger krill sukhoi flying the lower snap speeds would help.

I was wondering about where the line is with a barely there snap? enough to satisfy the judges, but no more. How much do you guys kick the rudder and elevators out? Do you guys kick the elevator out slghtly early to make a more visible break from the ground?

F3M we effectively have judged takeoffs and landings, though the landings are the only one with a pass/fail score, mainly to promote safety. I take it there is nothing like that in IMAC? Judged in flight only. Would a bolloxed up landing or approach downgrade a score?

Do the mid box manoevers need to be perfectly centered like in F3M?

And last, this was an issue at the French F3A worlds in France a couple of years ago where it was mega mega windy, the spin entry was centered in the box, but the wind blew the plane backwards fast off the center point as it slowed to the stall making it very hard to center the entry and get a proper stall, I noticed a few pilots effectively faking the stall. What's the IMAC stance on this? Is the whole manouver classed as a stalled manouver or just the post stall element?

Sorry for so many questions, I hope to be flying with some more experienced pilots later in the spring, but for the next couple of months I will probably fly alone still and do not want to practice mistakes.
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Re: Some judging questions for IMAC

Postby Languid Virago on Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:44 pm

thomasdavid wrote:Also, I don't think the sim will be much use. A stick plane is much better.


You are probably right, I crashed my stick plane sadly.

My radio now has a virtual caller feature in the latest update which I need to get used to. ( not to mention another 8 channels I have no use for) Be nice not to now have to go beg people to call for me when flying. I can sim practice in the same way and with the same caller as I would when flying a IRL model.
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Re: Some judging questions for IMAC

Postby thomasdavid on Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:00 pm

I tend to hit elevator first by a tiny bit then in with rudder and aileron. pretty much just bring the stick back in an L shape rather than straight to the corner. The snap condition is set to give a fairly nice snap so once the sticks are in the corners the plane will do much the same thing every time. Obviously it varies depending on the line and speed your on but its always a compromise. For intermediate, there are only a couple of snaps and none on verticals so don't worry about them too much. Just don't zero them, plenty of break and auto-rotation and work something out so you can stop them in the right place.

Cut off for scoring, it just has to be visible. Sounds easy, its amazing how often people don't manage it though.

Take-off and landing not judged. I think they will be overlapping take-off and landing in Italy, also two flight lines so at times 4 planes in the air at once. just take off and get out the way till the person before has finished. Same with landing as you will be landing in front of the next person and they will have started their sequence already.

No box or centre in IMAC. Airspace control score at the end instead. place the sequence where it can best be judged and it will be fine.

Blowing backwards before spin, as long as you blow backwards in a straight line you are fine. You should be wind correcting until it stalls, it stalls when the nose drops. You would expect the plane to be pointing in to wind slightly in order to hold the line when slowing down for a spin entry in a cross wind. For stall turns you need to correct the wind correction in pitch before going over otherwise it will flop. I just do it as late as possible before its moving so slow that the elevator becomes in effective.

I'm pretty much just regurgitating the rules here, complete with memory errors so probably Aruns advice a few posts ago is more useful.
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Re: Some judging questions for IMAC

Postby Languid Virago on Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:18 pm

thomasdavid wrote:
Take-off and landing not judged. I think they will be overlapping take-off and landing in Italy, also two flight lines so at times 4 planes in the air at once. just take off and get out the way till the person before has finished. Same with landing as you will be landing in front of the next person and they will have started their sequence already.

.


First part worries me a bit, 2 flight lines and lots going on at once. I am not mega happy flying in company as it is which is why i tend to fly alone on a private field, I am sure it will become evident fairly fast what is expected. My goal is to not come last, which will be a challenge methinks. I have no idea how to deal with my nerves.

Did you and Lee ever sort out the complaining neighbor issue at the Wharf? Or are you just sticking to ( or pretending to) the 28 day use thingy?

I will checkout the IMAC uk resource section Arun kindly mentioned on the laptop tonight, I have iPad troubles and PDFs do not show for some reason at the moment so i didn't think there was much useful there, I think apple have sabotaged the older models to get me to upgrade.
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